Money Donuts® Episode 13: Less (Auto Loan) Payments, More Donuts

Cooper:
We, okay.

James:
Go ahead. I'm not going to say anything.

Cooper:
Do you want to?

James:
Yeah, no.

Cooper:
You can do it.

James:
You can do it.

Cooper:
Oh, are you sure?

James:
Yeah.

Cooper:
Are you going to feel bad?

James:
No.

Cooper:
I feel like I was really mean to you last time when it came to your money facts, and I feel bad about that. I haven't stopped thinking about it, because I told you they weren't great.

James:
What did we even talk about last time, Cooper?

Cooper:
The facts and something about the FBI. I don't remember.

James:
Water under the bridge at this point. You're good.

Cooper:
That's good.

James:
I've moved on.

Cooper:
Welcome back to another Money Donuts Podcast episode. We have a very special guest today and we are going to have just a conversation about a hot topic which is cars, the car market right now, dealerships.

Steve:
Car colors?

Cooper:
We can talk about car colors.

James:
Awesome. Just buying a car in general, huh?

Cooper:
Yeah, just buying a car in general. We're going to learn some stuff. The market's a little different than it has been in the past, so we're going to see if we can get some insight on that.

Steve:
So we're in the room with this random guy named Monte. Monte, who are you?

Cooper:
What do you do?

Monte:
My role at RCU is to work with the dealers. I work with our loan team to make sure we are offering our members at the best possible rates and terms at the dealerships. So when our members go to dealerships to purchase a car, they can sign out right there and drive home with their new vehicle.

Cooper:
I've done that. It's really easy.

Monte:
Yes. Very convenient.

Cooper:
Yeah.

Steve:
How did you get into this role? Where did you come from?

James:
Have you always done this? I feel like you've had this role for a long time, right?

Monte:
When I first started at Royal, I was a financial sales representative, which now we've changed that to MAR member account rep, so I did everything but telework. All new accounts, loans, CDs, all that fun stuff. Then I was a loan officer at the member service center, and then I kind of just fell into this, the indirect program. At that point, it was the dealer program, dealer loans, we had a handful of dealers, 25, 50 dealers in the program.

Cooper:
How many dealers do we have now?

Monte:
Now, we have over 450 dealers in our program.

Cooper:
Wow. So really, anywhere you want to a buy a car, there's a good chance you can work with Royal.

Monte:
There's a great chance. Yes.

James:
Can you just shine a light on sort of the back end of the process for me? I think listeners would like to know generally, how does a dealership get to offer loans from different financials? Do financials just come up to a dealer and say, "Can you offer our loans to the people that are shopping for cars?" How does that work?

Monte:
That's a great question. So when we get to a new area or a merger, so Royal gets more lending area, my role is to go out and solicit new dealers so we can provide better services and more convenience to our members. Most likely new car franchises or larger use stores, and work with them and have a discussion to see if our products and services would help them finance the cars at the dealership. So when our member comes in, they literally take the application for us, the dealership does, kind of works as an agent for us, sends us the application electronically through a secured channel. We make a loan decision in a matter of minutes in most cases, send that approval back to them, and then they can go through and get all the paperwork done, the contract, all the MV forms, everything like that.

Monte:
And typically for the customer, when the F&I department is doing all of the application process, you're looking at the car or the salesperson might be going through the car with you saying, "Hey, here's all the fun options you can have." So it might take a couple hours from beginning to end, but when Royal is at the dealership with indirect partnership, you don't have to find your car, come back to Royal, apply, get a check, go back to the dealership, sign some paperwork there, and then go home. You can just go right to the dealership, apply, sign out and leave with your car and have Royal finance your loan for you.

Steve:
So that's like a good way that Royal makes it easy for our members.

Monte:
Definitely.

Steve:
Why do you think dealers like Royal to come out and give the option for members and non-members to use us for financing their vehicle?

Monte:
It's a great convenience and it saves so much time if you go to the dealership and they can send the application to us right from the start. So it saves everybody time that way.

Cooper:
So if I go to the dealership, apply with them, say, "Hey, I really want my loan through Royal." Is my going to be about the same as if I came in, sat down with someone called in, going through the dealer?

Monte:
It is exactly the same. That's one thing I love working for Royal for, because it doesn't matter if you close at a branch or if you close at a dealership, the rate is exactly the same.

Cooper:
That's awesome, because that's not always the case, right?

James:
Yeah. I feel like that part of the process, a lot of people have a misconception there. If you go to the dealership, things are not going to be pleasant towards the end of the buying process, right? Like in the F&I office, it's you hear a scary tale there all the time, right? But really, we're talking about seamless experiences, getting the same rates that you would get at a Royal office, and really, they're there to help you get that new car, right?

Monte:
Correct.

James:
That's fascinating.

Steve:
Would you say that the dealers that we work with are kind of like an extension of Royal at that point?

Monte:
Yes, definitely. They signed the deal agreement with us, so any information we share, nobody sells, everything is very secured that way. They work directly with our loan officers or the funding department. So if they have any questions, they can call the loan officers directly and say, "Hey, member A didn't get approved. Could I possibly do this loan to the co-signer?" Sure. Let's look at it that way, bring us to the co-signer application, and they can re-look at the deal and hopefully get an approval.

Steve:
Right from the start, we've really come at Monte pretty hard with questions. Let's talk about what donut this episode is.

Cooper:
Oh yeah. The donut.

Steve:
We kind of just skipped over that point.

Cooper:
We did.

Steve:
So because it's Monte's episode, do you have a donut that you think would fit the auto loan process?

Monte:
Not an individual donut, if it's going to fit the whole process, but a box of assorted donuts, just because donuts are all different, so are the cars. Trucks, SUVs, you get to pick. I might not prefer a red vehicle, but you prefer a red vehicle.

Cooper:
I prefer an apple fritter. Steve does not.

Monte:
And that's like a minivan. Nobody loves to drive a minivan except me. I love minivans, so I can't get enough of them, but I'm guessing.

Cooper:
Oh, you have a minivan?

James:
You don't really drive a minivan. You just move it from place to place. That's what I heard.

Cooper:
The minivan drives you.

James:
Yes. I have a minivan. I like it as well. Moved a dining room table in it a couple weeks ago. Fit in there, no problem. Six chairs, like a full size family table.

Cooper:
Did you buy a new one?

James:
It was used Chrysler Steele.

Cooper:
New to you?

James:
Yes.

Cooper:
Cool.

Steve:
So the box of donuts, so each donut represents different cars, and like cars and donuts, I lick them both. I don't know. Sorry.

James:
Good one.

Cooper:
It's what Monte told you.

Steve:
Let's do a quick, what's your favorite car color? If you could pick a car color, what would it be and why?

Cooper:
White or black.

Steve:
That is so boring.

Cooper:
I know. I have a red car right now. It's a bit much for me.

James:
Does the make and model manufacture color? Can I have any manufacturer's color in any vehicle? Yes.

Monte:
Sure.

Cooper:
Oh, I would prefer, so if we're going to get you specific with manufacturer color, I do like the tuxedo black that Ford has, is kind of shimmery. It's super pretty, but I really like a white or black car. I just like them basic, I feel like they match, okay. This is weird. If my car is white or black, it always matches my outfit.

Monte:
All right. That makes sense.

Cooper:
I just feel like that's important.

Monte:
So it's an accessory. It's a fashion accessory for you.

Cooper:
Yeah. I do feel like that's important.

Steve:
Mine would be like this, I don't have the technical term, but it's like this blue, this not so much baby blue, but a muted blue.

James:
Like powder blue?

Steve:
No, not powder blue. A little bit darker.

Cooper:
It's like creamy. It's kind of like this.

Steve:
Yeah. A little bit. Yeah. I like that.

James:
That's going to help the listeners.

Steve:
I love that we're talking something so much...

James:
We're talking about color in a podcast.

Steve:
We're talking about visual in an audio. Monte. Monte almost walked out the room. He's so done with this kind of stuff.

Cooper:
Monte's looking out the window and no longer paying attention.

Monte:
I was trying to find a blue, like is the state Wisconsin flag the blue you're looking for?

Cooper:
No, I would say like that apartment.

Monte:
I'm pretty simple. I like dark colors, but I really prefer black rims.

Steve:
Ah, yes.

Monte:
Like dark red, dark gray, black, dark blue. Just a dark color, but we're at contrast very well with the dark rims. The black rims.

James:
Okay, so matte black rims or shiny black rims?

Monte:
Shiny black rims.

Cooper:
Interesting. James?

James:
All right. Guess my favorite car color, Cooper.

Cooper:
I'm going to go with gray, like that dark charcoal gray.

James:
That's close. I think I would choose a silver.

Cooper:
Silver's the...

Steve:
Worst.

Cooper:
Worst color car.

James:
That's fine.

Cooper:
It's like it came hot off the press, and they forgot to give it a color.

James:
That's perfect. Can't improve on that.

Cooper:
Okay, and you think I'm boring.

Steve:
My last two vehicles were silver, so maybe three vehicles were silver.

Monte:
I believe that's the most popular car color.

Steve:
I hate it. I can't do it again.

Monte:
Doesn't show scratches, doesn't show the dirt.

Cooper:
Neither does white.

Monte:
Throw some black rims on it and you're good to go.

Steve:
I just got a comment on our podcast. They say that black and white vehicles are the apple fritters of vehicle colors.

Cooper:
Why are you so mean to me? What? So what, what are black rims? The donut?

Steve:
Black rims are awesome.

Cooper:
I don't disagree. I would like a white vehicle with black rims.

Monte:
That would look very sharp.

Cooper:
Thank you.

Monte:
If you take nothing else away from this conversation, it's that there's an emotional connection with vehicles in this country, for some reason. Car buying can be an emotional process.

Cooper:
It is an emotional process.

Monte:
It is very emotional.

James:
And I think having that seamless experience from A to B, from walking onto a lot to leaving the lot, is probably a make or break situation, just because you're so invested in it at that point, right? Like emotionally invested, and financially invested, I guess.

Steve:
And it's such an interesting time in the market right now like Cooper said in her intro. It's a different car buying experience.

Monte:
The market is very different than it's been, ever. The supply chain is very, very low, so the supply and demand kind of marketing 101, the supply is low, the demand is high, prices go up. So now on a used vehicle, you are going to pay more for what the value is or the Blue Book value's going to be increased, and then on a used vehicle, also, the nice thing is when you go to trade it in, it might actually be worth more than what you are expecting. The big problem that we've noticed lately is when you go to buy a car, you can't find it. So a lot of people, a lot of manufacturers are asking you just to order your car. Unfortunately, you have to be patient and wait three, four, maybe six months to get your car.

Cooper:
Wow.

Monte:
But on the flip side, if you order your car, you can get a boring white or black car. You can get any color you want, and then you get everything that you want in it for options. So as long as you have the patience to wait for it, on the flip side, you get exactly what you want instead of maybe some options you don't want when you just pick it off the lot.

Steve:
So if you can be patient right now, is this still a good time to buy a vehicle, in your opinion?

Monte:
If it's a new car, especially.

Steve:
Okay.

Monte:
Yes, because new car prices, the MSRP, everything like that kind of stays the same. With the supply and the demand on a used car, you're most likely going to pay more for the used car because that's what the market's bringing, but if you need a car, go look for the one that best fits your needs, your budget, and go get it.

Steve:
And rate wise, I know that we can't talk about specific rates because they change, but are rates at a good point right now?

Monte:
Rates are great right now. Rates are so low, and rates are really low for the longer terms as well. So with vehicles being more expensive, even the new vehicles are. Everything's going up. You can still get great rates for this 60, 63 months, 72, 75 months, get a very, very low rate.

Steve:
Is financing for that long a period a good idea?

James:
Yeah. Those longer term loans, but if you're buying new, you're going to own it until you decide to get rid of it, right? So that is the perfect case to get that longer long term, I think.

Monte:
It goes back to the assortment box of donuts. It all depends on the person and what you want, what you need. If it's a newer vehicle, yes it's more expensive, you're going to go 75 months. You could even go 84 months, and 84 months is a great rate. You're going to have a lower payment and what are you going to do with that car? Are you going to keep it for two, three years and trade it in? That's fine. Have a payment you can afford. If you're a payment buyer, you just want to make sure you can afford the payment. There's people out there that want to put tons of money down and go shorter terms, that's entirely up to you and what your financial picture is. Right now with rates being so low, if you finance a new car, you're not going to be paying $5,000 worth of interest. It's going to be way less than that, so that's one nice thing too, with everything with the market and low rates is you're not going to pay tons of interest.

Steve:
That's a good point that I should have thought about.

James:
I mean, cars are a depreciating asset, right?

Steve:
Right.

Cooper:
The minute you drive them off a lot, 10 to 30%.

Steve:
If I get a car for an eight year loan, is it going to last that whole time? Or am I going to be still making payments and things are going to be falling off of it?

Monte:
The quality of the vehicles, it does seem it lasts longer. So if you're going to take out a new car loan and you're buying a new car, I would not think you'd have many issues with it whatsoever. Obviously like anything, the more you use it, you're going to have wear and tear. You could always get an extended service contractor warranty on the vehicle to help protect it for the whole time that you own it, but the quality is there in most cases.

James:
I think that's reflected in trade-in values today too, right? We're seeing some of the highest trade-in values right now. Even for cars that are four or five years old in some cases, right?

Monte:
Correct. One thing I wouldn't be afraid of miles on the car, especially if it's a newer car and it's maybe a representative that drives around the lot and puts miles on way more than somebody else, I would look more for the year, get a late model vehicle with more miles on it than maybe a really old vehicle with just a few miles on it, that way.

Cooper:
Why?

Monte:
Just because the time, wear and tear on it. If you have an old car and it sits for a long time, maybe the seals go.

Cooper:
Good point. Okay.

Monte:
But one thing too, and again, it's going to go back to the assorted box of donuts and everybody's own opinion on it, but when I buy a car, I don't buy a car thinking what's it worth when I sell it? I buy a car because I like the black rims, I like the way it looks, I love the way it drives, and I'm just going to enjoy it. And if it falls apart in 10, 15 years and I need to get a new one, then that's when I'm going to get a new vehicle.

Steve:
Are you good at fixing cars?

Monte:
The old ones, yes.

Steve:
Okay.

Monte:
The new ones, no.

Steve:
Okay.

Monte:
With the computer chips and all the bells and whistles and blind spot monitoring, all that fun stuff, there is no way. You're driving a super computer.

Steve:
That's a good segue into why is there a shortage of vehicles right now?

Monte:
Yeah, the chip shortage is real. I think everybody knows about that. That's no secret.

Cooper:
I didn't know about it.

Monte:
I didn't realize the that.

Cooper:
I'm not kidding.

Steve:
No, I mean like right now, you just learned about that right this second?

Cooper:
Well, not right now, but just, I mean, I still don't fully understand it, but I get it.

Monte:
Well, this is a fun tidbit. How many computer chips, excuse me. How many computer chips do you think are in your average car that's not a hybrid or electric? Just like your car that you drive now?

Cooper:
It's like 200 or something ridiculous. I just learned this.

Monte:
Well yeah, it's it could be a couple dozen, three, four dozen on the low end. And if you get to the newer cars with hybrids and electric, you're going to be into the thousands.

James:
Wow.

Cooper:
Mine's a 2014, so I don't know how many would be on there.

Monte:
And so with the microchip shortage, it really throws off a lot of manufacturers. There's vehicles that are made that are just sitting in lots because they don't have the microchips to fix them or to finish them. I know some manufacturers would build the high end vehicles that are supposed to have all the bells and whistles, but they don't have the microchips, so they just send that vehicle to the dealership, but it might not have all the fancy stuff that you wanted. At least you get a new vehicle. You get a vehicle if you need one at that point.

Cooper:
Right.

James:
Stories from the industry, like you go to the dealership for an oil change and they're like, "Hey, can we buy your car?"

Monte:
Yes. That has happened.

James:
I'd like to hear that. Tell us about that.

Monte:
That happens quite a bit. If you go to your dealership for service work, there's a very great chance they're going to come to you and say, "Hey, can we buy your vehicle from you? We will pay you this amount of money for it."

Cooper:
They don't ask me that.

Monte:
It all depends. It's a 2014, is that correct?

Cooper:
Yeah. Ford Edge.

Monte:
It's not super old and it still has a lot of life left in it. Most of the people that I know are getting bids for their car from the dealers are like a 2016, 2017, 2018 model year, but the dealers can't find those cars.

Cooper:
Yeah. So they should settle for mine.

Monte:
So when they see one, they want to try to get it if they can so they can obviously sell it to somebody that's looking for that model year.

James:
Steve is in the process of looking for a car right now.

Cooper:
Do you want my car?

Steve:
Possibly.

James:
Steve wants a minivan, right?

Steve:
Yes.

James:
So when you go to a dealer lot, is it a different atmosphere? Is it empty? I haven't gone to a dealer lot for a while, so what is it like?

Cooper:
They are. Some of them.

James:
Is it just rows of emptiness or is it just like cars that no one else wanted or what does it look like?

Steve:
It's empty and it's kind of weird, and a dynamic that I've seen really change is I remember four years ago, going to the dealership and as you're looking for vehicles, a salesperson comes out, you're like, "I don't know if I want to talk. I'm just trying to look." And then you have to have that awkward conversation, they're like, "Hey, can we get your contact information?" You're like, "I'm not to this point yet."

Cooper:
It's like a bad date.

Steve:
Yeah, but now I'm going to the dealership and I'm handing out business cards being like, "Hey, if you see this vehicle, call me," and they're like, "Sir, stop stopping by. You were here yesterday." And I'm like, "Please, just call me."

James:
So it's like you have to talk to a salesperson to order your vehicle or to have the hunt for it for you? Is that it?

Steve:
Well, I mean, it depends on the donut you're looking for, right?

James:
Sure. Okay.

Steve:
So if you're looking for that special used unicorn vehicle, then the salesperson might have a good insight into what's coming into the dealership, and then they can be staking out the oil change line and being like, "Hey, that one is good for old Stevie," and then ask them to buy, do that whole thing.

Cooper:
Buying a car sounds a lot like online dating. So we could bring it back, this could be Valentine's day episode. We did would you date your bank account? Would you date your car dealership?

Steve:
Would you ship your dealership?

Cooper:
They won't date you, it sounds like.

Monte:
But back to your experience with the thin inventory.

Steve:
Yes.

Monte:
Yes. The car dealers are short on supply right now, so they do have new vehicles coming in, but a lot of them are pre-sold, so you can ask the dealer to, "Hey, if you see this unicorn vehicle for me, can you let me know? I'll come pick it up," whatnot, so they're searching for you on that one, or if it's a new vehicle, you could order it again and then just have to wait.

Cooper:
So Steve's like, "Hey, I want this neon orange minivan, 18 seats, leather, large cargo space." When they get that minivan in and put it on lot and James comes and is like, "Oh, that's a minivan for me." They're like, "No, sorry. It's already Steve's." Is that what it means? Like they're saving it? Or Steve's like, "Here's my money. I'll take whatever you got," and they, I don't know. What does pre-sold mean?

Monte:
Pre-sold's just a vehicle that's sold and it's for somebody specifically. So typically it's going to be a new vehicle.

Cooper:
It's not going to be used.

Monte:
Yeah. If it's a used vehicle, in most cases, your salesperson would be just looking for you and trying to find it. In the past, you could always go to auction, but auction, you're going to pay current market prices so it all depends. If you're really specific, then you can have the dealer look for you at auction, but remember the supply is short, so you might have to make some concessions to get the vehicle.

James:
I think the buyer that suffers in this market is the buyer like me who's indecisive, and they wanted to go and see like, "What are my options? I want to actually sit in all of the different choices," right? And you're like, "We don't have that decision. You just got to give us your money and order a new one, and you won't even get to see it until it's in your driveway," or whatever the situation is but, right?

Steve:
Most cases, the dealers have some option of the vehicle that you're looking for. It might not be the titanium version or the XLT or GT or whatever it is, but it might be more of a base option. So you can still test drive it, because yes, you definitely want to sit, feel, touch it in most cases, that way before you buy.

Cooper:
My mom doesn't test drive anything before she buys it. She decides what she wants, she's like, "I want that one," signs paperwork and drives it away. First time.

James:
That is bizarre to me.

Cooper:
I know. It's bizarre to me too.

Monte:
And that works. A lot of the stuff in the cars that when you're spending time in your vehicle, you just get used to it. It's not a bad thing. You might not like something. I remember when I was researching buying a new car back in 2016, the biggest complaint was the location of the clock. I'm like, "This is weird."

James:
So you're saying people just adapt to that over time, and eventually it's a non-issue.

Monte:
Yeah, and we purchased that car and that's the car my wife drives daily, and then I have my Rav. And is it different when I go from one car to the other? Yes, and I have to think of where the clock is, but to me, that's make or break. It's how reliable is the car? How safe is the car? Can I look at consumer reports? Can I look at history of the vehicle that way? And that would make my decision, but then again, just like the box of donuts, we all see the experience completely different.

Steve:
Should I give you my update on vans?

James:
Yes, please.

Monte:
Yeah.

Cooper:
Did you buy one?

Steve:
Yes. It's exactly what Monte said we shouldn't do.

James:
What?

Steve:
I ended up, I did not want to take on another payment, so I was really looking for something that I could buy outright and...

Cooper:
Oh, Steve.

Steve:
Somebody that I knew, their dad was selling their van which had low miles, but was an older model of van and I decided that I was just going to take it on and upgrade my 2001 to a 2002.

James:
Oh, that's awesome though.

Monte:
But how many miles did you go down?

Cooper:
I thought that didn't matter.

Steve:
No, I didn't go down. Actually, it's right at the same amount of mileage, but I'm going from a Chevy Prism, which is rusting out and it's falling apart.

James:
You can see Monte's face right now. His eyebrows are miles high.

Steve:
A minivan.

Monte:
You're going from a Prism to a minivan.

Steve:
Yes.

Monte:
So the car you were driving, you could almost drive in the car you purchased?

Steve:
Yes.

Monte:
Okay.

Steve:
Yeah. Basically.

Monte:
Well, that's all right.

Steve:
I needed more room and I needed, the snow was becoming a problem with this car.

James:
Which minivan is it?

Cooper:
It just doesn't feel like the right choice.

Steve:
Town & Country.

Cooper:
This is stressing me out.

Steve:
I knew it.

Cooper:
They have an actual clock in there.

Steve:
Why is it, a tick tock?

Cooper:
Yeah. The one with arms.

James:
Analog clock.

Cooper:
No, no, it's the one that's a circle still.

Steve:
So instead of taking out a payment.

Cooper:
What do you call the other kind?

James:
Digital.

Steve:
A tick tock clock.

Cooper:
Yeah. The circle one.

Steve:
I'll take Cooper is a no for 500, please.

Cooper:
Full on, a lot of money on the line.

Steve:
If I can drive it for three years, because I also don't need the nicest, newest thing, I just need to get from point A to point B, but I just need something that's a little more reliable and then we can continue to save up and put money away for a brand new van.

James:
That's perfect. That's a win-win. I mean, yeah. That's the assorted box of donuts right there. Pick what works for you.

Steve:
Yeah. We should probably talk about where is this market going?

Cooper:
Oh, did you bring your crystal ball?

Monte:
That one's, yeah, exactly. Predictions for the future is very interesting and again, like the assorted box of donuts that just keeps coming up, that's just the way the predictions go. From my experience and being out at the dealerships, it seems like the manufacturers are more focusing on making the vehicle for the customer that's ordering it, and since everything is short supply and people are waiting patiently, hopefully for their new vehicle, that might be three to six months. Well, if the manufacturers are ordering or excuse me, if the manufacturers are making your minivan, then they can't be making stock for the dealership. So in my opinion, it's soon as the manufacturers can meet the demand of all the people ordering the vehicles, and all the order outs that way or the pre-solds, and then they can start to replenish the stock, we might see more of the inventory increase at the dealerships, but until then I don't see it increasing at the dealerships. Just because they're trying to get the vehicles for the customers that paid for them.

James:
Do we care about refinancing at all?

Cooper:
I don't know. Monte, how do you feel about refinancing?

Monte:
It's always a good option. Just check rates, because rates are extremely low. Look online, look at your statement, see what your rate is, and then check with Royal because we have great rates. If your rate goes down, there's no cost for an application fee, there's no cost to refinance. You're literally just going to be saving money. And with everything going on, do you want to save money or do you maybe want to save on your monthly payment? You could refinance and just go down a couple bucks in your monthly payment and have a little more of a cushion if that's what you need at this point, but otherwise, you can refinance and save money and save interest.

James:
I think that's something a lot of people overlook, especially with those longer term loans that whatever rate you locked in at six years ago or five years ago could have changed. It could have changed a lot, like if your credit score is different now than it was then, for the better, you could qualify for a better rate or something like that too.

Monte:
That's a really good a point with credit. We're able to make all your payments on time, your credit score went up, now you're going to be able to save maybe a point or two because your credit score was better and we can give you a better rate.

Cooper:
Yeah, and a point or two can be over a couple thousand dollars over the course of that loan.

Monte:
For the long terms, yeah. Yeah. Mainly, you're going to save a payment or two, which is completely fine. I mean, I'm saving money and buying more donuts.

Steve:
Less payments, more donuts.

Cooper:
Less payments, more donuts.

Steve:
Oh, I think we just found the title of this episode.

Cooper:
I like it.

James:
That's perfect.

Cooper:
Monte, do you have anything else to add? How much fun did you have on this episode?

Monte:
I had way more fun than I expected.

James:
Yes. That's good to hear. Yeah.

Cooper:
Right?

Steve:
Yeah, and you'll have way more fun listening to our next episode if you subscribe today, so thanks for listening, thanks Monte for joining us, and we love talking money and donuts.

Cooper:
Should we sing an outro for Monte?

Steve:
Yes. 3, 2, 1.

Cooper:
Money Donuts. Goodbye.

Steve:
I was just going to ley Cooper do it by herself. All right. Bye everybody. Nailed it.

Cooper:
Rude.