Money Donuts® Episode 7: Discover Money Mindfulness

Diana:
We are going to start with an "om."

Cooper:
Om.

Steve:
Om.

Diana:
But no, I get to start it.

Cooper:
Okay.

Diana:
And then you guys can take it from there. But no, we really should. It'll be good. Should we start with the breath? Like honestly, this is going to help.

Steve:
All right.

Diana:
Okay, so close down your eyes. Trust me. It's going to be okay. We're all in a safe space. Okay. So exhale all your air out of your lungs. None at the bottom. Inhale and fill your lungs. Imagine your lungs filling side to side, front to back, top to bottom, taking in as much air as you can. And then, since we're all wearing masks, open mouth exhale. Sigh and blink your eyes open.

Cooper:
I do feel better.

Diana:
Sometimes. All you need is just a couple of deep breaths.

Steve:
I feel like we're ready to get started with Money Donuts. How about you guys?

Cooper:
I agree.

Diana:
I think so.

Cooper:
I'm in the... There's not a good word for like donutly zen.

Steve:
You're in the donut state of mind.

Diana:
You're in the center.

Cooper:
There we go. Donut state of mind.

Steve:
Is that emptiness in the center of the donut or what?

Cooper:
Hm.

Steve:
It's sugar.

Cooper:
I wouldn't say emptiness. But more like...

Diana:
It's like the calm before you take your first bite.

Cooper:
Yeah, like the eye of the storm. That calm in your center. It's a good thing.

Diana:
I like it. Donuts and yoga have a lot in common.

Cooper:
So that, you do the yoga so that you can eat the donuts.

Steve:
That makes sense.

Cooper:
Maybe. I do yoga more for tacos, but I can take donuts. Sorry. Did I just offend you guys?

Steve:
I've never seen James cry this much.

James:
I'm so offended.

Steve:
All right. Welcome to this episode of Money Donuts with Royal Credit Union's, what do we call ourselves? The Sprinkles, right, James? You were in on the Sprinkles.

James:
No, I do not want to be the Sprinkles.

Cooper:
That's our doo-wop group name. Why not?

James:
Because it's silly!

Cooper:
What is wrong with a sprinkle? They're the fun of the donut.

James:
No.

Cooper:
We are the fun of the podcast. Do you get it?

James:
Donuts are fun in general by themselves.

Cooper:
They are not.

James:
Yes, they are!

Cooper:
If it's just an unglazed plain old donut, no. We have a guest.

Steve:
We have a special guest. Cooper, you want to introduce her?

Cooper:
I do. She's part of my team. I'm so lucky. So, we have Diana here with us, and Diana is one of our financial education representatives, but Diana is also a certified yoga instructor. Did I say that right?

Diana:
I'm a registered yoga teacher.

Cooper:
Diana is also a registered yoga teacher, which is quite the accomplishment. She had to take a lot of classes, spent a lot of time doing it, but we now get to use her amazing talents here at Royal to do a little mindful money-ness. So we combine yoga, and money, and money mindfulness. Do a little money mindfulness.

Steve:
How would you explain money mindfulness to the people who are listening?

Diana:
That's a really good question. I'm glad you asked. What I think of with mindfulness... So mindfulness in general is just kind of being present in the moment. Being aware that you're sitting in a room with three other people wearing masks, doing a podcast. We're in this moment. We're not thinking about what's for supper or how cold is it outside?

Cooper:
The box of donuts on the table...

Diana:
We're right here, right? Yeah. Things like that. So if you think about mindfulness in general, then you can bring that into money mindfulness, which means that you're just present in the moment when you're thinking about your money. You've talked about budgeting, right? And those hard skills, like keeping track of your income and your expenses and things like that. Well, money mindfulness comes a little bit more into your values and just the way you feel when you look at your online banking. If you are about to pull up your app and you get anxious or worried, or these like that, it's helpful to pay attention to those feelings and try to figure out why are you anxious?

Diana:
Because it's been a while since you've checked your balance... what can you do to alleviate some of those feelings? Or the feelings that you have when you make a big purchase or a money decision, all of that can kind of come back to that money mindfulness. Just being aware of the moment when you're spending money, saving money, earning money, all those great things.

Steve:
I can definitely relate to that.

Diana:
Some of it is, we all have different values with money. We all have grown up with different money behaviors in our families. And so it's stuff that you bring with you that you don't necessarily think about unless you really take the time to tap into your feelings. Yeah. It's all about feelings. It doesn't have to be though.

Steve:
So is this a good episode for maybe a partner in life, for those conversations of what you feel about money compared to your partner? Sometimes the way you feel about money and sometimes how others feel about money can collide. How do you use money mindfulness to help combat that?

Cooper:
Yeah. So navigating the life partner and the different money behaviors that you've grown up with that's definitely... that can be a challenge. If one of you is used to being in control of the finances and one of you likes to avoid the finances, how do you reconcile those differences?

Steve:
What happens for you both like to avoid finances?

Diana:
Yeah. So then you probably both... neither of you want to check your finances. You don't want to pay your bills, right? That could definitely lead you down some difficult paths. You might not be reaching your financial goals. Or maybe you don't even have goals.

James:
So, you're in the moment. You're mindful about your money. Hm. Is there an action? Do I need to do something? Or is it just sort of being conscious like that? How far... where do you go from there? Or is it just taking that step back and be mindful of it that has a value here?

Diana:
Excellent question. So I think that noticing it, noticing the moment and how you're feeling, can be a really great place to start. If you're a journaler, you could keep a little log of like: checked online banking, felt nervous, checked online banking, got tax return, felt awesome. Just keeping a little log of it, that can be cumbersome. So not necessarily something you would have to do unless you really like that kind of thing.

Diana:
But otherwise, just noticing it... another alternative is you can wake up in the beginning of the day and set an intention for your day. Like today, I will do something with my...

Cooper:
Not buy coffee on my way to work.

Diana:
Sure. Or you can maybe commit to one day of mindful spending. Like, I will take three deep breaths before I spend any money today.

Cooper:
I like that.

Diana:
And so... you can commit to one day, right? Or even just one purchase. Like, before I go to... I don't know. Cooper, what's your favorite store?

Cooper:
Ooh, my favorite.

James:
Target.

Cooper:
Yeah, it is Target. I love Target.

Diana:
All right. So Target is a great place to practice mindfulness. Let me tell you..

James:
Amen, amen.

Diana:
Because, you go in there, you've got a list of three things. I need any toilet paper. I need, I don't know, salad dressing.

Cooper:
I'm pretty sure the saying is, "you don't tell Target what you want, Target tells you."

Diana:
What you need.

Cooper:
What you need.

Diana:
Right. So trick at Target, when you're going through all the aisles and getting distracted by all the pretty things, because, oh my gosh, there are so many pretty things. If it's not on your list, hold on to it. Close your eyes if you want to. People might think you're weird, but that's okay.

James:
Like you're saying hold onto the actual thing?

Diana:
Sure!

James:
Like pick up the big jar of Nutella and just hold it in your mind.

Diana:
Yes, yes.

James:
I need to ask myself if it brings me joy?

Diana:
Yeah. I mean, that's mindfulness too. So yeah, does the big jar of Nutella spark joy?

James:
Absolutely.

Diana:
Then by all means, put that in the cart.

James:
Was that the right thing to do?

Diana:
I don't know.

Cooper:
If it brings you joy, it was for sure the right thing to do.

James:
But the mindfulness piece of it was supposed to be like, "whoa, whoa, whoa."

Cooper:
Put it back?

James:
Maybe? That's what feels right to me. But maybe my values are different.

Cooper:
See, but that felt right to you. And I would've thought buying the Nutella was the right choice because that's what felt right to me.

Steve:
Maybe it's about picking up that item and asking, "why is the reason I'm looking to buy this? Is it because I need it, I want it, or is it trying to fill something that buying this item will never fill?

Cooper:
Did you have a bad day and you just want to buy it to spark a little bit of joy and to make you feel better about it?

Steve:
Yeah.

Cooper:
Yeah.

Diana:
Are you hangry? It's like that advice: you don't want to go grocery shopping when you're hungry.

James:
Yeah, it does.

Diana:
Because you're going to end up buying way more than you wanted to.

James:
Been there.

Diana:
It helps to have a happy tummy when you want to try to be mindful and make those decisions.

Cooper:
I'm hungry right now and have to go grocery shopping after this. And I'm like, oh, it's going to be bad.

Diana:
Mindfulness doesn't have to be all this pressure. Let's be clear. Let's not make it something where if I'm not being mindful all the time with my money, I'm failing. I can't do it. I'm not a good Yogi. I'm not a good mindful person. That's not true. Let's be real.

Cooper:
I think just trying to be mindful is what mindfulness is about, right? Same with budgeting, same with paying down debt. You're trying. You're making that effort. That's what counts, because if you're not trying, you're not getting anywhere.

Steve:
What are some of the things that Royal Credit Union does or has that helps our members with being mindful with their money?

Diana:
Real-time alerts.

James:
I was going to say that.

Diana:
I've heard you guys talk about those before, and that's a real thing because real time, how can you be more mindful than that, right?

Cooper:
Yeah.

James:
But it's definitely a two-edged sword though, right? Because it's like, "oh, that's my bank account balance, and it's going down." Or it's like, "all right, payday. This is good." So you're on a roller coaster with those sometimes.

Diana:
The interesting thing is, when you get those alerts and, "Ooh," like you said, "Ooh, my bank account or that my balance is going down," if that feeling of "Ooh, is it going to be okay," if that feeling that comes up is a negative one, then what can you do to shift that, possibly? If it's something that makes you uncomfortable, if you make a big purchase and you're like, "I value this item that I'm purchasing and I'm excited about it. And I know that it's going to help me," or it's something that you want, something that you value, or something that you need, if you can shift those to be like, "my account balance is going down, I know I can cover it." That's just that little shift.

James:
I like that. And to me, that's the takeaway. Just being mindful and thinking about money is one thing. But then, taking that chance or that opportunity to step back and say, "this is worth it. There's a reason I'm doing this. I'm choosing to make this decision about buying this awesome thing that's going to let me do this, or membership to that that has this perk with it," or something. I like that.

Diana:
I spend a lot more money than most people on yoga pants. Let me tell you...

James:
That seems perfectly logical.

Diana:
Right? So, the amount Of money that I might spend on a pair of yoga pants is more than I would spend on a pair of jeans. They make me feel good. I enjoy them. I saved my money up so that I can purchase them without feeling guilty about it. Try to limit myself to a certain number of yoga pants per year. And that's just something that I do because it's something that I value. And, I might be really budget conscious in other areas of my life, but I splurge on my yoga pants and that's cool.

Steve:
You have a yoga pants budget?

Diana:
Yeah. Kind of.

James:
I think everyone has their one indulgence or their one splurge item. Maybe we kno`w too much about each other, but I'm going to guess that Steve, you have a set personal budget for gear as a video and audio professional, willing or not willing. Is that true?

Steve:
As I said in the past, "budget," it's a little bit of a loose word with me. It's more like, look for that deal. Once I see it, I'm going to get it.

Diana:
I do love a good deal.

Cooper:
What's mine? What's my indulgence?

Diana:
Hockey. Hockey tickets.

James:
It's exercise equipment.

Cooper:
It is hockey tickets.

James:
I should have known that!

Diana:
See, I did my homework. I listened to your podcasts as I was driving around town, as part of my job.

Cooper:
Did I talk about that? Did I talk about hockey on the podcast?

Diana:
You did. You talk about hockey. I can't remember which one. I haven't listened to all of them. I think it was.

James:
I can't remember either.

Cooper:
I know, I was like, I don't know if they know that. Hockey's my thing.

Diana:
You did.

Cooper:
And I love Jeeps.

Diana:
I did not know that about you. I did not know that you love Jeeps.

Cooper:
I do.

James:
I didn't know you like Jeeps either.

Cooper:
I do really like Jeeps. I don't drive one. I would love to have one.

James:
You a "wannabe Jeeper?"

Cooper:
Yup. I'm a "wannabe Jeeper."

James:
Jeepers! Did you name your car though? Your car has a name?

Cooper:
No.

Steve:
See, I was for sure that you're going to have a name for your car.

Cooper:
Me?

Steve:
Yeah. You name your Roomba, but you won't name your car?

Cooper:
You have to name your Roomba.

James:
You have to name your car, what are you talking about?

Cooper:
When you set up your Roomba, you're prompted.

Steve:
Roomba 1. Roomba 2.

Cooper:
I don't get in my door, and it's not like, "hello, what's my name?" When I set up my Roomba app, it's like, "what would you like to call your Roomba?" Ro, obviously.

James:
Obviously.

Diana:
You know what? We have a CRV, a nice old CR-V.

Cooper:
Named?

Diana:
Named Rafi, like Raphael, the ninja turtle, because it's green. And right now, we have zero car payments, which to me means more yoga pants. But what it really means is, I'm taking what I used to pay for my car payment on my sweet minivan, and I'm putting that into savings so that we have a down payment for a new CR-V.

Cooper:
I like it. That was really good money advice in general. So if you eliminate a payment, and can afford that payment, you put that money in savings. Same with if you get a raise or a bonus, if you can put the difference into a savings account, that can be really helpful.

James:
Or look for sales. That's what Steve is thinking.

Steve:
We haven't had a car payment in a while.

Cooper:
What kind of car do you have?

Steve:
Have you ever seen the Flintstones? It's one of those without the floor.

James:
That is not what it is.

Cooper:
What do you have?

James:
Oh, we didn't cover Steve's, yet. Come on.

Cooper:
Oh, he drove the Flintstones.

Diana:
Raise your hand if you have a minivan.

Steve:
You can't see this, but everybody Cooper has a minivan. Get a minivan.

Cooper:
No. I could fit a lot of dogs in a minivan. Yeah. That's why my mom has one.

Steve:
Did you ever think about buying a MINI Cooper?

Cooper:
Yeah, a mini me with Cooper tires.

James:
Don't do it.

Cooper:
You bet. No, it's too tiny. I like bigger cars.

Steve:
I have a 2001 Chevy prism that's rusting, and we're looking at new vehicles right now, too. Because there's great rates, but we're going to become a two van family. Yeah. Right now.

Cooper:
That's impressive. A two van family.

Steve:
Yeah.

Cooper:
Wow.

Steve:
One for me, one for the kids.

Cooper:
Not for your wife?

Steve:
She can pick which one she wants to ride in.

Cooper:
Okay. Got it. Seems very safe to let your children drive the minivan. That's a perk of minivans. They're so safe, your kids can drive.

James:
Whatever. Mario Kart teaches you everything you need to know.

Cooper:
Exactly.

Diana:
Yup.

Cooper:
James, you drive a minivan. Do you fit in it?

James:
We have a minivan and an OPEC.

Cooper:
Nice. Both very safe choices. Made for children. If you're buying a house, how can you be mindful about it?

James:
How could you not be mindful? It's the biggest purchase you'll ever make.

Diana:
Yeah, you have to think about things like that.

James:
There's no better time to take a few deep breaths before signing on that dot.

Diana:
That's for sure. And how do you feel when you're in the house?

James:
But maybe that's the key to this whole thing. Would you go out with your bank account? And if you wouldn't then you're doing something wrong. Yes.

Cooper:
Okay. Scratch money mindfulness. Would you date your bank account? This is our donut hole. Would you date your bank account?

Diana:
I'll just sit back and you guys can talk for a little bit about that.

Steve:
Come on. You got to jump in.

Cooper:
Steve, would you date your bank?

Steve:
Would I date my bank account? I would...

Cooper:
The answer is no, because you're married.

Steve:
I would go on one date with my bank account.

Cooper:
Okay.

James:
Then you'd make her pay.

Steve:
Yeah. These jokes pretty much write themselves.

Cooper:
Diana, would you date your bank account?

Diana:
I'm not quite sure what that means. I'm trying to wrap my head around it.

James:
It's totally open just like money, mindfulness.

Cooper:
Whatever you want it to mean, that's what it means.

Diana:
When I look at my online banking and I opened the app, and check out my balance is... I'm kind of a saver. So I like to look at my savings account balance, because that's pretty solid and that makes me feel good. And no matter what the checking account balance is at, if I look at my savings account balance, I'm kind of like, "okay, we're good." Because the checking account, it can go up, it can go down. My husband and I get paid on the same weeks. It used to be, he would get paid one week, I would get paid the next week. And it was really great because it was like, "Hey, every week we get paid!" Now we both get paid the same week, and that week is great. And then, the following Tuesday, we're like, "what happened?" All our bills are paid, and we didn't really do anything else.

James:
Your relationship with your bank account is likely to last longer... it could be the longest relationship you ever have. Right? If you start it a kid, you're going to spend a lot of time together. It's important that you enjoy doing the same type of thing.

Cooper:
It is important to want to date your bank account. So Diana, is Royal going to have any fun stuff coming out that our members or non-members, listeners, are going to be able to do to help them practice money mindfulness?

Diana:
We do. I made a video, and it's a yoga and mindfulness and money, all kind of meshed together in one. And we call it a mindful money moments, and it's a led yoga video. And so you can choose to join in, and move through the poses, and the breath work, to help you just try out mindfulness, and yoga poses. And weaved in to the lesson, there are tips about money and just bringing that mindfulness into your body, so that you can really feel the different emotions that might come up when you are thinking about money or stuff like that.

Steve:
Do you think that money mindfulness is going to be a great tool for the younger people who are listening?

Diana:
Yes. And that's the plan. Right now, we've got one video that is coming out, but it's going to be a series. And so, my plan is to have different videos. So some might be geared more towards kids, or teens, young adults. Just different age groups. But there are things that any age can benefit from, whether you want to do it with your kids or your parents.

Cooper:
Or lock yourself in a room and do it on your own.

Diana:
Oh, that sounds nice.

Cooper:
Yep.

Diana:
Quiet room. It's a dream. It's a dream of mine.

Cooper:
But could you maybe share one or two of your favorite yoga poses and how they correlate to money? Let's give them a little taste of what you've made.

Diana:
Sure. So one thing in the video that we talked about is a balance pose. So in yoga, there is tree pose where you balance on one foot, the other foot can be kind of floating anywhere. Maybe you've seen it, but tree pose. So, with balancing, it can be tricky, especially if you don't have a lot of practice with it. And so we tie that into a balancing your account, your income, and your expenses. And if you don't have a lot of practice with that balancing and paying attention to your money, it can be really tricky.

Diana:
Yeah. So we talk about how having a solid foundation, learning those basic skills early, that can help you with your skills in balancing your money. But having a solid foundation, a firm foot on the ground while the other one's lifted up, in your body and yoga, that also helps with balance.

Cooper:
So Diana, yoga is cool and mindfulness is cool because you kind of just do it where you're at, right? You adapt it to what works for you. You meet yourself where you are. Is that how we should look at money and budgeting and our finances in general?

Diana:
Definitely. Yeah. We're all in different points in our journey with money and if you're new to yoga or new to working with money, you're not going to have the same level of comfort with it. As somebody who, maybe has been teaching financial education for a few years, like you Cooper, right? Or somebody who's been practicing yoga for 10 years or something, there's obviously different skills that you learn along the way. And one cool thing about yoga and about money management and money mindfulness is they're lifelong journeys. So you're not expected to know everything on day one. And part of, what you could even say, the fun is learning as you go and understanding that you kind of get to decide your path.

James:
So don't sell yourself short, because you have room to improve. You have room to change and choose something new. I like that.

Diana:
Definitely. Yeah. Give yourself some grace.

James:
I'm ready for yoga. This is perfect.

Diana:
Oh, since we're doing videos, you guys should all do a yoga pose. I'm just kidding. We don't have to do yoga.

Cooper:
We could do yoga. I mean, I'm doing chair pose right now.

Diana:
That is not chair pose.

Cooper:
Now it's chair pose.

James:
It's a registered yoga teacher telling you that that was not the chair pose. How did that feel?

Cooper:
I've been to her yoga classes. I know how to do chair pose.

Diana:
I take that back, because you're doing chair yoga. You're not doing chair pose, but you're doing chair yoga. Using preps using, using modifications, using your tools that are available to you. Actually, this is really good stuff.

Cooper:
See, and you think I don't pay attention when I attend your class.

James:
This conversation is exactly what happens when you try to talk to someone about money, too. Like, why did you spend all your money on Target?

Cooper:
And we get really defensive.

Diana:
It's true. Wow. I didn't even see that one coming.

Cooper:
But happens.

James:
That mindfulness is just taking that setback, taking a couple deep breaths...

Cooper:
Thinking about it. Thinking about why you got defensive over that conversation. That's part of being mindful.

James:
Probably because you're super competitive, and you like yoga. You actually do know the chair pose.

Diana:
Yep.

Cooper:
You know, sometimes it just makes me uncomfortable how well we get to know each other in these sessions.

James:
You're taking that time to be mindful about money in a similar way to how you're being mindful when you're doing yoga. And you're using that time to decide if you're going to keep going down the same path, or if you're going to change things a little bit. You know that you can make a change or improve, sometimes, and you know that maybe you want to keep doing the same thing. Because you're happy with where you're at.

Diana:
It's a lifelong process. It's a practice. So when we talk about yoga, we don't say, "I won that yoga game." I "yoga'd" better than everybody.

Cooper:
I had the best chair pose.

James:
I think that's what I was looking for. You shouldn't feel like you're going to get to an end point here. It's the journey that matters. So I think that's good to hear. You're never going to be able to just check this box and move on. It's going to be something that you're going to be working at.

Cooper:
We didn't talk about the donut either.

Steve:
Did we not talk about the donut? I feel like today's episode is the chocolate, chocolate, chocolate donut, chocolate on top.

Cooper:
Diana does really like chocolate.

Diana:
I can get on board with that.

Steve:
Because I feel like it's always a bunch of different layers of money mindfulness, and that's what we're kind of working towards. Building those chocolate layers as we progress through our financial journey.

Cooper:
Exactly. Because you can never have too many layers of chocolate.

Diana:
Oh my gosh, no.

Steve:
What do you guys think our listeners should do?

Cooper:
I think that they should tune in next week, and when they go to the store, after listening to this, or reach their destination, to take a minute and be a little more mindful about whatever they're doing. Whether it be making a purchase, figuring out their finances, or just thinking about how to respond to that email from your favorite coworker.

Steve:
But we're all together. So let's sing our outro. Ready? Three, two, one.

James:
Money donut. [crosstalk 00:25:59]. We covered this in the brief. Sing money donut.

Diana:
You did not give me any notes! You gave me zero notes!

Steve:
If you like this episode, tell everyone you know.

Cooper:
And leave us a five-star review. Subscribe to our podcast!

James:
Is that a wrap?